Posts by new boy

44

Things You Still Agree With The JWs On

by Fred Franztone in

aside from obvious things that most people agree on, like theft being wrong and the importance of family, i can't think of a single thing i agree with the jws on, nothing that's specific to their religion anyway.

do you have any?.

new boy

Will not bare arms against my fellow man. They got that one right. Religions are like people no one is all bad or all good.

2

Chapter 51 New Boy 50 years a Watchtower slave

by new boy in

jw
friends

the guy who never had a christmas!”.

“it’s kind of like a jewish guy eating a pork sandwich for the first time.

you go back again and the bill comes $975.

new boy

Chapter 51

The pork sandwich

When I meet new people and it comes up that I have been a Jehovah’s Witness for over fifty years. They ask me, what it was like to leave that kind of thought system after so many years.

My favorite story about those feelings happened at my first Christmas in 2001. A friend of mine Gregory Bartels owns The Christmas Tree Company. He told me he wanted to give me my first Christmas tree free, since it’s I’ve been the Christmas Grinch for so long. He told me to just go to anyone of his tree lots and pick out a tree for free.

So I did just that. I told the lot attendant about the free tree from the owner.

He said. “So you’re the guy! The guy who never had a Christmas!”

“Yes I guess so.” I shrugged.

“So tell me what’s that’s like, having a Christmas for the first time ever?”

“Well” I said. “It’s kind of like a Jewish guy eating a pork sandwich for the first time. It taste good but just feels weird.”

The other question has been. “Why did it take you so long to figure it out and finally leave?”

I don’t know, just stupid I guess. I’m sure not bragging. Hey look at me, fifty years and I finally made it out. I’m not proud of my stupidity for sure.

My children on the other hand have told me that they wish I had left years earlier, so they could have enjoyed a more normal life, as a teenager. Since I like me, they too had missed out on all the school dances, sports and other activities they are denied all good witness kids.

On the other hand I have told them if I had left when they were just small children and not adults, they definitely would have been in their mothers care many years. So they could have turned out most likely to be good Nazis Jehovah’s Witness instead. Kids that would have nothing to do with their father. I guess we’ll never know.

I do know one thing, timing is everything in life.

There are thousands of bad marriages and relationships. People and their religions could be considered a relationship too. People who are together for all the wrong reasons and they have been together way to long. Why? Who knows?

Many of us have suggested to these people they should get out of their bad situations. The words many times fall on deaf hears. We all know it’s not going to happen until that person has had enough.

For people trying to leave a bad religion or bad relationship it’s like going to your favorite restaurant for a meal. You have this amazing meal with great service. The bill comes and it’s $275. Well it was nice wasn’t it? Yes of course. Next week you are back again and get another great meal. The bill comes this time and now its $475. Wow, but it was nice of course. You go back again and the bill comes $975. This is too much, no matter how great the food and service was. Even though you are getting what you want, the price is just too much. The “love drug” you are paying for is just costing too much.

Everyone wants love. How much are you willing to pay for it? Is your “love drug” costing you too much now?

My final bill came on September 11th 2001. I decided my restaurant was over charging me for over fifty years for bad food and terrible service. I just couldn’t pay the bill anymore.

No more of the Jehovah’s Witnesses “love drug” for me.

Each person knows in their heart, when that last straw gets loaded on to the camel’s back.

When that happens it will be tough leaving the pack because there is so much comfort with the pack.

If you are a dog on a dog sled of life, there are only three positions you can be it. You can be with the trailing dogs behind everyone else. The Gomer Pyles of the world, behind the curve and trailing the pack. In which case you are screwed. You can be with the pack just like everyone else. The cattle that follow the leaders. In which case you are totally screwed. Or you can be ahead of the pack, the visionary ahead of everyone else. In which case you are of course screwed. However being ahead of the pack as its benefits, at least the views are a lot better!

The crazy thing is, I never went to the internet and looked up anything related to Jehovah’s Witnesses before I left that organization. I got no information about them either way, for or against them.

However after I left I got on the internet and checked out my old religion. Wow! No wonder the society doesn’t want you to check out the history of their organization.

They tell you that you should investigate all religions before you join theirs. That is definitely not true.

They also tell you that you need to thoroughly examine their faith before you join also. That is not true either. Because their examination means reading only their publications.

Below are some of the fun facts I had found out about the history of Jehovah’s Witnesses. For some odd reason that they never bothered to mention these facts when I was in their organization.

Charles Russell (1852-1916), the founder, believed that Christ had secretly arrived in the year 1874 and that he would establish the Kingdom of God on Earth in October 1914 Russell based this prophecy on his studies of the Bible and the Great Pyramid.

A key component to the calculation was derived from the book of Daniel, Chapter 4. The book refers to "seven times". He interpreted each "time" as equal to 360 days, giving a total of 2,520 days. He further interpreted this as representing exactly 2,520 years, measured from the starting date of 607 BC. This resulted in the year 1914 being the target date for the Millennium. Russell's belief became a key teaching of the bible students later known as the Jehovah's Witnesses. Since late in the 19th century, they had taught that the "battle of the Great Day of God Almighty" (Armageddon) would happen in that year.

Russell		Said. “And, with the end of A.D. 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as is already shown from prophecy." Studies In The Scriptures, Vol. III, (1897)
		"...we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914" (1889).
		"In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved." Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. II, (1889)
	However in 1912 he back pedaled"...he wrote that, while the prophecy remains valid, the power of the Gentiles could end either in October 1914 or in October 1915."

Lots of people join Russell's movement and it expanded rapidly, in the years leading up to 1914.

However, as the year 1914 came and passed without the visible appearance of Christ. The society regarded the start of the World War 1 as confirmation that the process leading to Christ's return, had started. They decided that 1914 was the year that Jesus invisibly began his rule from heaven.

In November 1914, immediately after Russell's prophecy had failed, he wrote that the period of transition could run a "good many years."

The Watchtower magazine suggested that the destruction would happen "...shortly after 1914 with the utter destruction" of other Christian denominations and the inauguration of Christ's millennial reign. They first predicted that this would happen in 1915. Drawing a parallel with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman Army in 70 CE, the authors of the 1915 Edition of "The Time Is At Hand" wrote:

"The Gentile Times prove that the present governments must all be overthrown about the close of A.D. 1915; and Parallelism above shows that this period corresponds exactly with the year A.D. 70, which witnessed the completion of the downfall of the Jewish polity."

After Russell's death in 1916, members of the society rewrote large portions of his Studies in the Scriptures to reflect the new belief that the year 1914 was merely the beginning of the end of Gentile times.

They later delayed the millennium to 1918. A 1917 publication, "The Finished Mystery" stated:

"...in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of Christianity."

That year also passed uneventfully, except for the end of World War I.

The WTS introduced the concept that Christ would establish his millennial kingdom on earth "before the generation who saw the events of 1914 passes away." With many humans achieving a life span of over 90 years, this could place the War of Armageddon at any time between 1914 and the early 21st century.

The next estimate of the end of things was some time in 1925.

In 1918, J.E. Rutherford, the WTS' second president and the author of "Millions now living will never die" wrote:

"...there will be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and other faithful ones of old ... we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal representatives of the new order of things on earth.... Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection."

In 1922, Rutherford wrote:

"Fulfilled prophecy shows beyond a doubt that (Christ) did appear in 1874. Fulfilled prophecy is otherwise designated the physical facts; and these facts are indisputable....We understand that the jubilee type began to count in 1575 B.C.; and the 3,500 year period embracing the type must end in 1925....It follows, then, that the year 1925 will mark the beginning of the restoration of all things lost by Adam's disobedience."

In 1923, a Watchtower article predicted:

"Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge."

As the year approached, the WTS appeared to back-peddle somewhat:

Watchtower magazine predicted in mid-1924:

"The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in the Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914; but it would be presumptuous on the part of any faithful follower of the Lord to assume just what the Lord is going to do during that year."

At the beginning of 1925, a Watchtower article commented:

"With great expectations Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be... Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year."

Just like 1914 the year 1925 came and went to the dismay of the church leaders.

They regarded the year 1975 a promising date for the end of the world, based on their original belief that it was the 6,000th anniversary of creation of both Adam and Eve at the Garden of Eden in 4026 BC. They believe, along with many other conservative Protestant denominations that the world would exist for exactly 1,000 years for each day of the creation week. Their Watchtower or Awake magazines taught that:

	"According to reliable Bible chronology Adam was created in the year 4026 BC, likely in the autumn of the year, at the end of the sixth day of creation."
	"According to reliable Bible chronology, Adam and Eve were created in 4026 BC."
	"Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man’s existence coincides with the Sabbath like thousand-year reign of Christ....Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth."

This prophecy was put forward in their publications, notably Watchtower and Awake and at their assemblies. The close proximity of the end times encouraged the membership to increase their proselytizing efforts.

Membership rose significantly in the years leading up to 1975. Some members sold their possessions, cashed in their insurance policies, etc. in anticipation of the Millennium's arrival.

As you can see the powers that be have mentioned and given dates for the end of the world as we know it, many times over decades of time. 1914 was hyped for years and now 1975 was pushed more than ever.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses say the Bible warns us about false prophets (Matt. 7:15) and tells us we can see if they false, if they say that they speak for God and make predictions in his name, yet the predictions don't come true. Than they are false of course.

The society has given no less than 6 dates for end of the world, the last being 1975.

Maybe they are just like all the other religions.

If you don’t believe in the strange story, I have relayed to you about my life as a Jehovah’s Witness all I can say is do your own research.

5

Chapter 50 New Boy 50 years a Watchtower slave

by new boy in

jw
friends

chapter 50. life after death.

since i had been in a religion that was focused on death.

it was now time to focus on life.. the wonderful line from shawshank redemption says it so well.

new boy

Of course god isn't to blame. Their logic is the problem, plus they are the ones who like to attach blame and guilt to situations.

9

When did the society decide blood transfusions were a bad idea?

by new boy in

jw
friends

more book research..

new boy

More book research.

35

Professions in the Paradise

by The Real Edward Gentry in

jw
friends

we know there will be no money in paradise.

but there will almost certainly be jobs to do.

we will be perfect at our jobs but that doesn't mean we will be perfect at every job.

new boy

Grave diggers! They will have 7,500,000,000 of people's bones to get rig of after the birds get done with them.

5

Chapter 50 New Boy 50 years a Watchtower slave

by new boy in

jw
friends

chapter 50. life after death.

since i had been in a religion that was focused on death.

it was now time to focus on life.. the wonderful line from shawshank redemption says it so well.

new boy

Chapter 50

Life after death

Since I had been in a religion that was focused on death. It was now time to focus on life.

The wonderful line from Shawshank redemption says it so well. “Get busy living or get busy dying!”

I had spent my whole life in a religion that focus on a war that was coming any day. The ultimate war between god and man.

It was a time to rethink everything.

It was just like my analogy. I had gotten out of the van in New York City and was walking around in a daze. I had found a new freedom though. I walked down the street and looked at all the people walking pass me. Something had changed. I looked more closely now. Many of the people had smiling faces. Had they changed? No, I had changed. I now saw the world completely differently. It’s not a world controlled by Satan and his demons. It’s just a stage with many different players on it. A world full of endless possibilities.

I wasn’t going the same way as Jim Olson, Robert Stillman, Robert Bryant and thousands of others who tried to leave The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. People who found there was no existence outside their world. People who had found death their only real option from the Hell their life had become.

Though I’m sure the society would have loved if I had taken myself out, after my article in The Oregonian. That wasn’t going to happen.

I love the last line in the movie Papillon. “I’m still here you bastards!”

One of the many reasons I’m still here is the fact that I had found some new friends, years before I had lost all my Jehovah’s Witnesses friends. My new friends are Gary Zukav, Neale Walsh, Marianne Williamson, Deepak Chopra, Wayne Dyer, Carolyn Myss and Erchart Tolle. These friends were able to help me leave the mind controlled environment, I had been dealing with for over fifty years.

These new friends have helped me make my transition into the real world. The world where there doesn’t have to be “us and them.” It seems the planet has been suffering from this illusion for a long time.

These new friends have showed me the meaning of something called “Unconditional love.” This is what I would call the purist of all loves.

This is a love a mother gives its child. Does a baby get this kind of love from its mother because of its performance? Of course not. That mother gives that child unconditional love no matter what. Are we not all god’s children?

Whereas religions believe in “conditional” love. Their love is based on your performance and what you can do for them and their god.

Unconditional love is just that, unconditional.

I’m not here trying to sell a new thought system. I don’t need people to think the same way as me anymore. I went from door to door for decades trying to peddle my thought system to other people. So that is not going to happen.

We should be here to help and support each other.

They say in life that all your activities revolve around one of two things. Whatever you do, you are either helping yourself or you’re helping others.

For many years I hosted the ex-Jehovah’s Witness meet up group. I heard a lot of sad stories about what people had lost trying to get away from the Jehovah’s Witnesses. There were whole families that were wiped out. Not usually by shot guns but by but by the devastation of shunning.

When I did host the ex-Jehovah’s Witness meet up group I got a very sad and interesting phone call from a woman one afternoon.

She called me to ask if there was anything she could do to stop her husband from getting re-baptized this coming Saturday. It was just a few days away.

I said. “Probably not, why?”

She had told me how she had fell in love with a man who was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness. He had been out of the organization for many years. They were now married and were expecting their first child together. She did have a daughter from a previous marriage. She told me how everything was wonderful, until his parents started pressuring him to going back to all the meetings.

She also told me how her parents had hated her from the beginning of their marriage, because she was a “worldly person.” His parents even went so far to encourage him to leave her, even though she was pregnant, so he could eventually get with a good Jehovah’s Witness girl. Of course there would be no repercussions to him, since he was already dis-fellowshipped!

She was desperate and wanted to know what she could do to stop him from rejoining this group.

I told her it was probably too late, since he was getting baptized in just a few days. I told her this was something that had to be in the making for many months if not years.

I felt I had to tell her what she could expect now he was going back in. It was not going to be easy for her, because she had no desire to become a Jehovah’s Witness.

I had mentioned to her of possible problems and difficulties she might have to endure, now that her husband rejoining his old church. Little did I know at the time, that she would soon be going through something that would be ten times worse than anything I could have ever imagined.

Soon she and her husband would be in Witness Hell.

If she ever had any desire to join this church it would soon be gone forever!

I would enter the Twilight Zone with her a few months later. She was crying and I could barely understand her. I really didn’t know what she needed or wanted. Maybe she needed a shoulder to cry on. I told her we could meet her for a cup of coffee. What she told me I had no words for.

We met a few hours later at a busy restaurant. I wish you could have seen the look of bewilderment on this poor woman’s face.

As we set there to told me about what had transpired over the last few months since we talked earlier on the phone.

Of course her husband had got baptized as he promised. Being re-baptized he became a zealot once again in his old faith. He spent less and less time with his pregnant wife.

Finally the baby came. However there was a big problem and complications at birth. It would be life or death, for the child unless the baby got a blood transfusion. She was of course in favor of this. He was definitely was not.

There was many heated arguments about this. The elders got involved. They informed her husband that he could not waver. There was no way he could give in on this matter. It was more than just a matter of life and death it was a matter of faith.

She fought her husband to the bitter end. She said he hated her and her stance against him and his faith.

There was no time left and a decision had to be made. He hung his head in shame and told the doctors to go ahead and give the child a blood transfusion.

The elders found out who gave the order for the blood transfusion and they were furious with him. They told him there would be grave repercussions from this decision.

Two days later the child died.

The elders actually told her husband they were not surprised about the child’s death. In a sense implying this was a punishment directly from god himself. This was because he had actually disobeyed god’s commandment on this issue.

He told the elders he was wrong and blamed his “worldly wife” for the pressure she had put one him. He begged them for their forgiveness.

There was nothing I could say to comfort her after that story.

Are they still together? I would doubt it.

So two things here.

First did god kill the baby because it got a blood transfusion to drive the point home to the disobedient husband?

The second thing here is. This woman will obviously never become a Jehovah’s Witness in her life. Can you blame her?

So how can Jehovah judge her everlasting life by not being a Jehovah’s Witness by the fact that his people tried to get her husband to leave her. Plus god supposedly killed her baby because her husband disobeyed him.

I guess she could always say. “Yeah that’s the church I want to join, sign me up! I love this loving god and his loving people!”

Yes my friends once more, “By their love.”

6

Chapter 49 New Boy 50 years a Watchtower slave

by new boy in

jw
friends

chapter 49. cool aid anyone?.

this was of course great news for my wife.

all the talk in the congregation about who had caused our spit up was now over.

new boy

Chapter 49

Cool aid anyone?

This was of course great news for my wife. All the talk in the congregation about who had caused our spit up was now over. I had become the evil apostate. She was of course now the poor victim.

My children who were adults at this time where of course totally shocked and taken back by this sudden turn of events. However, they too had been having doubts about the organization for many years themselves. By this time they had pretty much stop going to meetings altogether. Of course it was time for the witnesses to do damage control on them.

It was too late my son sent in his letter of disassociation a few months later.

To this day my ex-wife believes that I’m totally responsible for taken her children out of the organization. This simply is not true. I certainly didn’t discourage them from leaving. As adults it was their decision. It was an easy one to make too, because the children of today are much better at spotting bull shit then my generation. For that very reason the younger generation in their organization are leaving in droves.

She totally believes to this day I betrayed her. But really who betrayed who. She choose to turn her back on her husband, children and own father because her religion told her to. For her the only true family she ever had was her church and the people in it. It wasn’t us, her flesh and blood. So did we betrayed her or did she betray us?

In sixteen years she has never asked me once why I choose to leave and why? She really doesn’t want to know the answer to that. If you were with someone for almost thirty years wouldn’t you want to know why they were leaving?

It would have made no difference to her anyway. Even If I had said I have seen the whole governing body having a mass orgy with farm animals and small children. It would have made no difference to her. It would be hands over ears saying blah… blah… blah. Please don’t confuse my mind with the facts.

We now have become part of the thousands of families split up over this religion. Children that have been shunned parents, parents who have shunned children. Siblings not talking to each other. Friends of forty years walking pass you on the street and not even looking at you. It’s like the last daughter in “Fiddler on the roof” when the last daughter married the gentile. “We have no daughter now.”

It’s totally surreal.

Oh course many people have asked me over the years what it was like to leave after a fifty years in that kind of controlled thought system.

My best analogy would be this one.

You’re walking down a street in California and someone stops and throws in a van and drives you to New York City. The van door opens up and they throw you out into the street. They tell you to never contact any of your former friends and family they are dead to you now. Your new life starts in that vacuum.

For many the new vacuum doesn’t work for them.

In December of 2001 a Jehovah’s Witness whack job named Christian Longo decided to kill his wife and young children. He said after, he was distraught over his expulsion from the Jehovah’s Witnesses in 2000, "I sent them to a better place."

Then in February a man killed himself, his wife and children all because of shunning of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

The Oregonian newspaper reported this.

MCMINNVILLE - The community of McMinnville was visibly shaken after
investigators discovered a family of six shot to death in their home in an
apparent murder-suicide Friday.

“Robert Bryant is believed to have shot his wife and four children - whose ages
range from 9 to 15 - before turning the gun on himself, said Yamhill County
District Attorney Bradley C. Berry.

Robert Bryant was found dead in the living room, 37-year-old Janet Ellen Bryant
in the master bedroom, and their four children in their beds, Berry said.

All had been killed by shotgun blasts.

"Evidence ... indicates that Mr. Robert Bryant killed his wife and children
and then took his own life," Berry said, although a motive is not yet known.

"It was a horrible sight," Berry said.

The children last attended school on Feb. 22, and the shootings are believed to
have occurred the following day, he said.

Dead are the 37-year-old father, his 37-year-old wife, Janet Ellen Bryant, as
well as 15-year-old Clayton, 12-year-old Ethan, 10-year-old Ashley and
9-year-old Alissa Bryant.

Bryant was a self-employed landscaping contractor.

A former California neighbor, Albert Clary, said the Bryants and their
relatives were Jehovah's Witnesses.

The family was reportedly shunned by both other Jehovah's witnesses as well as their own relatives following the incident.”

At the end of the article The Oregonian asked what could push a people to this kind of insanity.

I decided to call The Oregonian and told them I had some information that might help an outsider understand the devastating policy of shunning a little better. So Wendy Y. Lawton gave me an interview.

My Children begged me not to let the interview go into print. I told them. “I publicly went into this religion and now it’s time to publicly leave it.” Besides I said. “Maybe somehow I can help just one person who is in hell because of damage this religion has done to them or their family.”

It must have been a slow news day, because we ended up on the front page of The Oregonian on March 21th first 2002.

This was what the article said.

Keith Casarona doesn't pretend to know the mind of Robert Bryant. Why anyone wipes out his family with a shotgun on a Saturday night, then points the 12-gauge under his own chin is beyond the comprehension of this soft-spoken Tigard real estate agent.

Yet Casarona knows -- in intimate and anguishing detail -- the pain Bryant felt in his final years. Both men split with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Bryant was expelled three years ago in California. Casarona chose to leave a Beaverton congregation last fall.

The decision gave Casarona peace and fresh possibilities. But the break was devastating. Casarona said he lost his wife of 27 years and friendships that stretched back three decades. About a fourth of his real estate clients vanished.

"Witnesses are good people, and I bless their path," the 52-year-old said. "But when you leave them, you go into a Never Never land."

The killings in McMinnville last month -- the worst mass murder in recent Oregon history -- cast a spotlight on Jehovah's Witnesses and their practice of "dis-fellowship." In a Christian sect that proudly protects members from the corrupting influence of outsiders, expulsion is the harshest form of discipline.

There is no official motive for the slayings. Police think Bryant was under emotional strain when he shot his wife, four children and himself. That stress, investigators said, included fallout from his shunning.

Now anti-Witness Web sites are abuzz with accusations. "Who in their right mind would ever want to stay in this horrible, horrible, hateful religion?" one posting reads. Witnesses, too, are talking. But they're saying the church is the scapegoat for an unfathomable act.

Leonard Golaboff, a 46-year-old elder in Oregon City, notes that there is no proof that Bryant's ouster from a congregation outside of Sacramento was directly responsible for the murders and suicide. Like all expelled members, Golaboff said, Bryant could have changed his ways and come back.

"This is all just a tragedy, a travesty, a shock," Golaboff said. "What was going on in this man's mind? I am sure there is a lot that we don't know."

What worries Golaboff and other Witnesses is a link between the trigger of Bryant's shotgun and a 132-year-old faith that deplores violence and cherishes family.

Jehovah's Witnesses are a made-in-America church that boasts 6 million international members. They believe in Armageddon: The world will end, the wicked will die, and God will create a paradise on Earth for the righteous. The name refers to members' watchful return of Jehovah, or God.

The Bible is their bedrock. Witnesses live their lives in strict accordance to its teachings and follow a rigid moral code. Stealing, drinking, smoking, premarital sex -- all are forbidden.

According to another Bible interpretation, members also must keep separate from a world invisibly controlled by Satan.

They're not supposed to vote, join the military or celebrate holidays aside from the commemoration of Christ's death each spring. Close ties with nonmembers, or the "worldly," are discouraged. The reason is reflected in a standard Witness saying: "Bad associations spoil useful habits."

Protecting the congregation's purity is the point of dis-fellowship. Members are kicked out before they can harm, or continue to harm, others with conduct or beliefs that contradict the Bible.

Sherwood elder Tom Davis said there is a second purpose: Putting a member back on the proper moral path. Davis said dis-fellowship -- or even the threat of it -- often forces people to make positive changes in their lives.

"This helps someone realize that they've made a mistake and need to change their ways," Davis said. "And we're not talking about little stuff. This discipline comes from violating the stated laws of God."

According to elders, experts and church materials, here is how dis-fellowship works: To get kicked out, baptized members must display a pattern of "serious un-Christian conduct," such as molestation, adultery, drinking or lying. Promoting teachings that conflict with the Bible also qualifies.

It isn't clear what Robert Bryant's offense was. Neighbors and friends in California said he began to question Bible teachings and found the Shingle Springs, Calif., congregation too controlling. An elder has declined to discuss specifics, saying Bryant had "turned away" from the faith.

Elders said they try to avoid shunning through Bible counseling. And, if repenting members convince leaders they've changed, they can stay. If they don't, elders call a private, judicial-style meeting and expel them.

The shunned still can attend religious services, officials said, and conduct business with members. But Witnesses are instructed not to socialize with someone who is dis-fellowshipped.

John Crossley, a professor and director of the school of religion at the University of Southern California, said a similar tradition of excommunication is shared by Catholics, Mormons and the Amish. But the practice is fading.

"It is almost impossible to hold up moral doctrine and force people to conform to it anymore," Crossley said. "It is especially difficult to continue a practice that is as severe as dis-fellowship."

Witnesses point to lives transformed by shunning. People kick drugs, stop gambling, and mend marriages. But critics attack the practice as cruel and destructive.

While families aren't required to split up due to dis-fellowship, critics and even a few church members said that is often the practical result. Computer sites devoted to attacking Jehovah's Witnesses are loaded with stories of divorce and custody battles and estranged siblings -- as well as depression, drug abuse, bankruptcy and suicide.

Daniel Duron used to be among the angry.

After he left the church in 1984 over a disagreement over blood transfusions, the Hillsboro roofer's world turned upside down. Elders came to his door and told him his two boys were "fatherless." His wife and friends and extended family became strangers. Duron was so shaken he planned to kill himself. The gun store, however, was closed.

Soon Duron started fighting. He divorced and won joint custody of his sons. He picketed a local Kingdom Hall. He joined a support group for ex-Witnesses, where he met his second wife. Looking back, the former elder said the biggest impact of his shunning was the sudden loss of certainty.

"Everything you believed in is gone with this tight-knit church family," Duron said. "The way you look at science, spirituality, the after-life -- it's all different. Eventually, that can be very positive. But it's also scary. I wouldn't wish the experience on anyone."

You can reach Wendy Lawton at 503-294-5019

I love the line. “Davis said dis-fellowship -- or even the threat of it -- often forces people to make positive changes in their lives.”

Yes if we can, we will FORCE you back to god’s loving organization. So much for free will.

Cool aid any one?

5

Know any Spiritual Vampires?

by new boy in

jw
friends

the multimillionaire spiritual vampires from california.. i was at brother vampire’s house drinking his cheap wine when his roof was being repaired that day.

i had refereed a young newly married brother who was a roofer to fix brother vampires roof on his million dollar house.

they just had a baby and were as poor as dirt.

new boy

The multimillionaire spiritual vampires from California.

I was at Brother Vampire’s house drinking his cheap wine when his roof was being repaired that day. I had refereed a young newly married brother who was a roofer to fix Brother Vampires roof on his million dollar house. They just had a baby and were as poor as dirt.

It was a terrible winter day in Oregon, with thunder and lightning and sheets of rain blowing in. The young man was up and down that roof for five hours looking and repairing all the leaks that day. Finally, he came in to get paid. He was completely drenched to the bone. I saw Brother Vampire pulled out a wade of money that would choke a horse. He scrolled through dozens of hundred dollars bills, until he got to the twenties. He slipped a single twenty dollar bill out of the wade and handed it to the young brother. You should have seen the look on this kid’s face. He told me years later, that he took the last nine dollars he had to buy caulk to fix this guy’s roof. He also said he came very close to telling this guy to “Keep his twenty dollars, you obviously need it more than me.” The only reason he didn’t say that is he needed the twenty bucks for gas to get back home.

One more body in the road.

One more side note about the vampire’s daughter who turned me in for saying “fuck.” My roofer friend told me that she tried to get his wife in bed with her a couple of times.

Just more eating and defecating in the same spot.

By the way a few years later one of Brother Vampire’s kids, decided to leave the organization. So of course he was cut off. He ended up being homeless and sleeping in the streets for years. That will teach him. How dare he leave god’s loving organization!

So why does this family of self-righteous vampires upset me so much. I guess because that family seems to encapsulate the organization itself. They are always hunting for the smallest infractions in other people's lives, yet have no problem overlooking major shit in their own immediate Family/Bethel home.

Let’s forget about pedophiles in the organization and lets dis-fellowship people for having oral sex.

56

143rd Gilead Graduates cRiNGeWoRThY Song

by pale.emperor in

quite possibly the most cringeworthy thing i've seen them do yet.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tk88rstv6o.

new boy

The funny thing is, these people look and act just like the drone Gilead Students of fifty years ago.

Their cloning program is still working for them.

81

Secret sex in the Org

by pomo6780 in

2 pioneers of the opposite sex.

the brother is in his mid-20s, sister is in her late 20s.

both are alone in car as the only 2 out in field service.

new boy

Leo Greenlees was the overseer of the Green Point congregation in the Queens. He was a Bethel Elder and governing body member. He was a homosexual and pedophile. He really love the “brothers” especially the younger brothers. He raped young Mark Palo when he was just ten years old. Mark was just one of many others.

How did they deal with this pedophile? What punishment was administered? What example did they make of one of their own?

They gave him a golden parachute and “asked” him to leave.

After he left he pioneered in the New Orleans area for a while and then moved around to many different congregations over the next few years. Just like most pedophiles do until they are stopped.

I ran into him in Mexico in the late nineteen eighties, when I was there on vacation with my wife. He was a special pioneer at the time. I didn’t know the history about him back then. I do remember thinking to myself why would someone who was on the “Governing Body” be a special pioneer in Mexico now? This was strange indeed.

I also remember him telling me how he had many “Bible studies” mostly with younger boys. Big surprise.

For Leo the only reprimand he got was the announcement at the headquarters breakfast table and I quote. “Leo Greenlees is no longer a Bethelite. End of the matter.”

Of course they wanted this to be the “end of the matter.” They swept him under the rug and wanted him as far away as possible.

I got turn in for saying the word "fuck" by a sister who was fucking six different guys/girls at the time